Most of us are aware of the two blatant misdirections sect members employ to promote their respective Hadith collections. Because these are the same tactics that every single charlatan, fixer or "well-wisher" uses to dupe the ordinary unsuspecting good people in general. In fairness most sect members themselves are unaware of the sophistry behind the rigged game. But a few probing questions easily gives away their game. The game specifically is rigged to protect their or more specifically their sect's seriously flawed but very useful Hadith collection(s). That is useful to the for-profit sect. Yes, all sects are thriving businesses.
The first salvo against those questioning their particular brand of Hadith collection endorsed and stamped by their own "scholar(s), is to accuse the questioner of being against the Prophet Mohammad PBUH. And increasingly new terminology is constantly introduced to declare them not only Kaffir, their all-time favorite word, but to make it appear that any sect member has the "Ijaza" (permission) to actually go ahead and kill them.
Talk about deterrence. The reason for this seemingly extreme reaction is not some hot headed response rooted in the "love" for the Prophet PBUH but the first line of defense that rely on the rank and file to do the dirty work for the mind messing professionals that control these illegal sects. How do we know they are illegal? Because all sects in Islam are illegal. Especially the one claiming a default status or the more the self-defeating one where it is claimed that their's is the only true sect. Which all of them do, of course.
If the first line of defense is breached and those determined to get answers manage to blunt the typical emotionally charged attacks then in their second line of defense the first step is to unleash carefully rehearsed rhetoric designed to catch most questioners off guard. If one is reasonably familiar with the basics of how logic and reason works and find holes in their "arguments" then the focus is immediately shifted. The strategy all along is to prevent them from questioning the fundamental premises of their claims. So the next ready step is to try and immediately drag the questioner into the process and confront him or her with terms like "Science of Hadith", authentic chain of narrations and then informed that he or she is not "qualified" to even comment on the process let alone rule on it because they don't have the requisite "knowledge" to decipher this very "complex" field. And all this so that you will not dare to question the fundamental premises, as I already mentioned.
Because once you do question the premise of the Hadith collection as in how they were collected as opposed to trying to make sense of the already collected stuff that their house of cards come crashing down. The IT industry refers to their archly heel as "Garbage in, Garbage out". I have attempted to put this very issue in perspective in my previous post http://lifecheat.blogspot.com/2013/02/all-claims-need-to-be-validated.html and as most objective observers will agree, 99.9% Hadith literature (actual number) is not worth wasting your time on if your quest is to understand Islam. Because it is not Islam.
Hi, I know we have a different theology, but I'd like to rationalize with you.
ReplyDeleteDo you really think that over 140000 different, detailed reports are 99% fabrications.
I know some are for political reasons like Rajm, Hijab, Music, Intercession, etc. But could all of that, including how to perform Salah, be false. Doesn't that destroy modern history as we know it. This would mean Jesus, Muhammad, Alexander, and all the other guys have no evidence for their claims and hence, no one can believe they existed. Do you also reject Mutawattir Hadith, like the one's 70+ narrarators related.
Salam Ali, apologies for the late reply, my excuse, life :) As they say life happens to us while we are making other plans.
DeleteWell I never take the majority or sheer numbers as a criteria for accepting anything. If we were to follow this route then might as well accept Hinduism or Christianity.
And as far as history is concerned, we don't have any other choice to accept what is available. After all the entire story of Alexander is based on a single document written centuries after his time. Similarly accepting Hadith just because they are labeled "Mutawatir" is also problematic and I often cite the last sermon, reportedly witnessed by over a hundred thousand people and yet there are at least three versions. Besides, actual number of Mutawatir Ahadith will easily fit on a two pagers with large font size :)
Luckily for us History doesn't define us, a belief system does and hence before accepting anything we need to first determine that Quran (or any other source) is the very word of God and once done apply the standard of evidence detailed in the Quran. Anything short should be treated as history. Our eternity depends on it. You are welcome to read my previous post on the issue here http://lifecheat.blogspot.ae/2013/02/all-claims-need-to-be-validated.html
Salaam. What are your thoughts on Salah? Can you please provide references? What I find ironic is that of all the incredible details that hadith go into, some of the really obvious questions seem to have gone unanswered (or perhaps a result of my own ignorance). I am wondering what the point of salah is. I mean, it's not really prayer, since when I pray (which I equate to supplication), I'm not really distracted. It's when I perform the highly ritualized motions of salah that my mind wanders. (I'm also wondering on the rituals of Umrah, which has left me feeling more confused than anything else. Had I not visited SA, I might not be quite so willing to see your viewpoint either. The social structure just seemed so bizarre and superficially "proper", all of life seems to be ritualized)
ReplyDeleteI honestly don't think deferring to "logic" completely is the answer here either. Scientifically speaking, one could argue that such rituals help to train your subconscious mind, but that's not from the Quran or Hadith, but some of the processes of the brain and human nature do defy logic. God being the creator has better knowledge of how we're built than the conclusions we can come to just logically.
So, according to the Qur'an what is salah? (ritual, prayer, connection). What is one supposed to get out of it?
Unfortunately I don't understand Arabic or the Qur'an, therefore I have no real way of verifying, besides trusting others' reviews. I've read several English translations and have realized that I might as well be reading totally different books. (Muhammad Asad vs Yusuf Ali)
I have looked into learning Arabic so I can understand for myself and it seems that I'll have devote a year of my life full time in order to understand the Qur'an. I am not amongst the minority of Muslims either. So, what am I supposed to do? How do I not rely on third parties?
In my situation, dropping everything to learn a new language isn't realistic. Besides, my last piece of investment in trying to figure out the truth by visiting the land is came for led me closer to disbelief than any other singular experience with Muslims anywhere. It's amazing that with all the insistence on Salah and the five pillars, all those scholars would have an in-depth study and explanation for the significance of these rituals. Instead we are left to books of fiqh which speak of the devil blowing in one's rear end when he's performing Salah.
After reading your blog posts, it seems that you do more than just blind following. I'm really hoping that you've come across answers to some of these very basic questions which the mullah's refuse to answer (maybe b/c they just blindly follow too)
Salam and thank you for visiting my humble blog. The good news is that you really don't need Arabic to make sense of the Quranic message. That said we can make our life easier if we were to at least learn the Arabic script to the extent that looking up words and comparing them is achieved.
DeleteAs to you question about Salat, from what I have gathered, let me start by quoting from the Quran to try and put the importance of Salat in perspective;
Recite, what has been revealed to you of the Book and establish prayer. Indeed, prayer prohibits immorality and wrongdoing, and the remembrance of Allah is greater ( أَكْبَرُ). And Allah knows that which you do. Quran 29:45
The above verse for me clarifies both what is the benefit of Salat and its core objective. The benefit is clearly stated, the objective is remembrance both during Salat and remembrance per se.
Equally important is the fact that the manner of Salat that is detailed in the Quran is not rigid but can be performed within a very wide margin and certainly not restricted to the Arabic wording. In fact should be recited in the language one knows best.
At the same time the physical act of Standing, Kneeling and Prostrating are crystal clear, those who wish them not to mean what they normally should mean have an uphill task obviously. Furthermore these rituals are part of our training so to speak, we need it not God obviously.
The issue of Salat have to be understood both from its visual and process impact. Visual for those, both Muslims and non Muslims, who observe a Muslim performing it and the process for the one performing it. The process is well defined in the Quran, which starts with certain conditions; offer when not under the influence, prepare by physically cleaning oneself physically so that God may purify you (لِيُطَهِّرَكُمْ)Quran 5:6, and yes stand, kneel, prostrate and recite the words of God.
Also the physical process/act can be shortened if not in a friendly environment, the process of preparation can even be modified by simulating cleaning when the means to clean (water) is not at hand, all point to a physical ritual.
Now to somehow assume that salat has no physical form forces us to find unsatisfactory explanations to all the physical elements directly related with it. On the other hand to assume that it is an end onto itself creates difficulties to understand some other verses of the Quran. Hence the only logical conclusion is that it has both forms, a physical visual process oriented form and acting out what one recites in the physical form and above all the remembrance of God is the focus.
In the same way it also makes perfect sense to choose Surat Fatiha, where we directly ask God to guide us onto the straight path after confirming God's status as the Lord of the Universes (s) and the sole Malik of the Judgement Day. In addition we reiterate the fact that God has made us primarily for His Ibadah (in the broader sense but also this physical act/process in the form of the Physical Salat) and we are to ask Him alone for help etc. In essence the core of our Deen.
Again the rigid notion of five pillars can be found in the secondary sources not in the Quran.
The logic element and by logic I mean rational thought and just not the academic discipline Logic, is the only methodology repeatedly emphasized in the Quran itself. Furthermore the other anchoring help tool is the declaration that there are no contradictions in the Quran. This for me is the single most important criteria to understand the Quran and it is because of it that the significance of the actual language of understanding is almost nullified. When we keep this single element of noncontradiction in mind, the chances of arriving at a wrong conclusion is eliminated when the whole of Quran is pictured. That easily translates into if you found a apparent contradiction between two verses that would mean your interpretation of either one of the verses is flawed or your interpretation of both of the verses is flawed. hence seek another interpretation (s).
DeleteThe Arabic constraint is again very logical. It is another guiding principle for us and not a limiting factor. The words of the Quran should be interpreted by considering the words within the context of the Arabic language only. By that I mean if a Quranic word sounds like something in another language with a different meaning then that is a mere coincidence. This does not mean Quran cannot be understood in another language. If it were so then the message would go against its Universality claim and that would be a contradiction.
I hope this at least will get you thinking :)
Logic and rational thought have serious flaws in and of themselves. "Rational thought" is highly dependent on the information available. As a matter of fact, this is the very process borrowed from Greeks and applied to Fiqh which makes me question its wisdom. The while chapter about tahara, i.e. what is clean and unclean reeks of pseudo-greek style philosophers making rulings on based on what limited information they had and their superior power of logic & rational thought that the regular people "obviously didn't posses" (yes, I'm being sarcastic here). Thank God, they didn't have microscopes or any idea scientific standards of clean and unclean, b/c I'm convinced that would've turned into religious edict based on their methods of "rationalization".
DeleteI shudder to think of religious scholars referencing science. They know little to nothing of it. Science in it's very nature is fluid, and partially a result of "rational" thought based on temporal & limited information. Whereas the Qur'an supersedes time/space, if you believe it to be the word of the Creator Himself.
Anyways, it seems you're taking your liberties with the rational thought part. As any neuroscientist will confirm, part of your rational thought process is basically your left brain making sense/connections between things that don't necessarily have a connection. And your brain is happy to lie or believe things are a certain way even if they're not. (Yes, the irony of me using rational arguments to prove a point against rational inferences has dawned on me :P)
I do think you're oversimplifying just a bit. Knowledge of Arabic is indeed a prerequisite in gaining an understanding of the Qur'an. I know very little of it, but the little bits that I do know have altered how I've regarded the Qur'an. The little shreds of belief I have left are thanks to knowing how utterly amazing the little bits of Qur'an that I do understand, truly are. Without knowing Arabic, the Qur'an is at best confusing and jumbled in English. Much of it sounds like weird eastern, morally ambiguous tales (yes, I know my view is biased by an orientalist view, but I'm just being honest about how foreign and random the translated text appears to a westerner with preconceived notions on slavery, women, capital punishment etc). I admit, Muhammad Asad's translation is way better than some of the earlier stuff I read, but still not like understanding and knowing the Arabic itself. (I actually read someone justifying masturbation as halal since the verse reads "what your right hand possesses"). The outright rejection of hadith/history also poses a challenge, since understanding just Arabic will still not give you the context of some of the verses. Muhammad Asad actually uses some references to some Jewish traditions to explain the surah Al-Baqarah story and I'm not quite so sure that rejecting even that is valid.
I have even tried learning from a "scholar" who lives in the west (delving into Fiqh & such). My inquiries and observations clearly irked him and a few others to the point where they just shut me off. Mind you, I have no agenda against Islam. I no of no other religion I would rather be part of (unless you consider Zen a religion, which I don't). I'm just curious about the various inconsistencies in dogma, that I don't believe is reflective of what attracted so many to follow the Prophet (Pbuh).
DeleteAs far as salah goes, I question your interchanging the work prayer for it. I think dua is prayer. You'll never find me not reflecting on God during dua. I mean, I'm speaking to him. Dua to me or prayer, is a very intimate and spiritual experience. Salah, on the other hand is the furthest from it. When I've asked the scholars to explain, since I believe it must be due to a lack of knowledge on my part (rationalizing again), they've offered anecdotes of how sahabah's had a hard time concentrating (some Hadith about getting offered a sock for praying right and nobody being able to), while other scholars explained to me their own rationalized view of what Salah is and how I should focus more on the technique of wudu etc. Condescending A-holes who I assume, maybe wrongly, don't think I can make rationalizations up myself.
Salah to me is a highly ritualized activity, the wisdom of which I still fail to see. I am certainly not remembering God during the entire time consciously. I can see some benefits, maybe, to staying away from immorality and wrongdoing, but I'm not convinced what I do really has that effect. I understand Fatiha and pretty much everything I say in Arabic, some of which speaks nothing of how I actually feel or what I'd like to say to God. I don't don't reflect on the surahs I'm reading since that's what usually leads me to forgetting which mechanical action comes next. And focusing on the mechanical part breaks any concentration(or what I misconstrue as khushoo) that I did have in the previous position. The entire act honestly seems pointless. After hearing a hadith that the Prophet mentioned that most people gain nothing I out Salat, I actually stopped performing salat. I restarted again, after reading some neuroscience books which led me to think that perhaps there's an effect on my subconscious in the exercise. But I can't silence the voice in my head that I am being hypocritical and should further investigate why it still feels empty.
I find it utterly frustrating that of all the hadith collected and all the things people around the Prophet asked him, how come there isn't a LOT more information about this random ritual we perform 5 times a day? I have yet to find even a decent book on salat that doesn't dwell on the pedantic physical or technical aspect of it to the exclusion of even bringing up a discussion about which it might mean.
To me, the fiqh, shariah and possibly some hadith are results of rational thought experiments with 12th century sensibilities. If there was innovations to the Prophet's (Pbuh) way, it is already deeply intertwined into the Islam we know today. After all, how to do truly come to Islam, Salat etc without heavily relying to "tradition". The other option is to simply re-invent the religion based on modern rationalizations which aren't necessarily much better.
What I am ultimately left with is a book that I understand little bits of here and there. Injunctions by strangers whose motives I now look at with distrust, since it's more about institutional compliance than my soul and pestering feelings that I am seriously lost. I recall a time when I lived in ecstasy as my living and dying was for God alone. Then some religionists became intercessors, maybe novelty wore off. Now I simply do things. I have an occasional sprititual moment with God when I make dua. All the learning of various magic verses that's supposed to heal this and another ritual for that have left me further from God and at a point where I am skeptical of pretty much everything, including my belief that I even know what the Prophet's(Pbuh) is. For that fact, if any of the so called "scholars" even know.
DeleteI apologize for ranting. As you may have figured out by now, I am extremely frustrated and can identify with some of your thoughts. If you have found answers to some of these questions, please do share. Entertaining & responses to my tirades are very much appreciated.
Salam, I'm not the writer of this blog nor am I sure that I have the answers you're looking for, but maybe I could help a little bit with your questions about Salah. Growing up in the Muslim/Arab world, I suppose I've never really had any problems understanding the wisdom behind Salah, and why we it's so ritualized (which, as you pointed out, could be distracting). Salah is not just about the "spiritual cleansing" that comes from Wud'u, or that performing Salah regularly helps grow a conscious which leads to an end of one's evil deeds, but also about giving God what He deserves. Throughout Salah we remember God by reciting His words (I know you said that His words might not exactly be what you want to say, but you can save that for Du'aa - remember, Salah is for God and God alone), and by making supplications and glorifying God whilst kneeling or prostrating. The point of this is not only giving God what He deserves for all the blessings He's bestowed upon you, but also so that you're giving something back.
Delete"And if My servants ask concerning Me, I am indeed close to them, (and) answer the prayer of a supplicant if he called upon Me, (but) let them also answer (My call).." 2:186
God doesn't ask much, just a small amount of time to do what pleases Him, and that's Salah. Remembering Him throughout it, reciting His words, bowing and prostrating, and if done with sincerity will surely help put an end to one's evil deeds.
A teacher once pointed out something interesting, that no matter how rich or poor you are, whether you're a peasant or a king, at the end of the day you still put your forehead on the floor prostrating to the same God who we all know is Higher than us. Perhaps that's the point of the "rituals", equality among servants.
I'm not sure if I helped, or made it worse for that matter, but in shaa Allah you'll get the answers you're looking for :)
Thanks, in the mean while here's another interesting discussion on salah:
Deletehttp://forums.understanding-islam.com/showthread.php?4483-There-is-NO-ritual-prayer-called-salat
LifeGuru, it's obvious your stance differs from Dhulqarnain. To what to you attribute that? Different interpretations? Doesn't that open the floodgates on interpretation? I'm not particularly for the Catholic Churchesque Ulemaa, but not sure complete anarchy is the way either...
WOW!!!!! lol anyways enough with the crazy talk. This link utterly refutes the fitnah on this misguided site. Enjoy :)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.binoria.org/ebooks/AuthorityOfSunnah-MuftiTaqiUsmani.pdf
Thanks for dropping by and thank you for the link. Please do yourself a favor and ask the Mufti how does the "science of Hadith" distinguish between a true sahaba (companion) and a hypocrite in light of Quran 9:101 :) and watch the fun.
DeleteThe issue as I and many have repeatedly highlighted in this forum is that if someone's beliefs (both religious and secular) are solely based on the reviews done by others like the Hadith literature and of course the Dawkins of this world and if someone's opinion of someone else's beliefs is also based on the reviews done by others like the fatwas both religious and increasingly by the people behind the book selling racket then one has nothing new to bring to the table.
Once beliefs or opinions of others are accepted as true without personally verifying them is commonly referred to as being taken for a ride.
I can't help but notice that many times you do not respond to people's comments. It could be that you don't have enough time, or it could be that you're unable to answer them? I myself have provided a number of comments which have been left unanswered, my comments contain sincere questions to you and your work but often they're ignored. Why is that exactly?
DeleteHi and apologies, generally I do try to answer everybody but you are right lately it is one non stop crazy ride :) Still no excuse. Please let me know what exactly did I miss ? Thanks
DeleteTo be honest I can't remember exactly every post I've commented on haha, but I left a comment on Dress Code for Women in Islam asking about something in the post. Would be great if u could clear up :)
Delete